Shanghai Residents Demonstrate on Street to Protest a Maglev

[gerchin]

Shanghai Residents Demonstrate on Street to Protest a Maglev Project
(Wenhui Daily)

About a hundred Shanghai residents went on the street to protest a controversial Maglev project on Jan.6.
The project, a 35-kilometer maglev train line, has been objected by thousands of Shanghai residents since early 2007, culminating in them writing a petition letter to German Chancellor Angela Merkel asking her to stop the project, which could be contracted by German companies, in March, 2007 ...

http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2008/0....street_to_protest_a_m.php[/b]

[AlexK]

Good to see democracy rising in China ...Rofl...

I cant stop laughing when I read news like that...how come?

Maybe its because China can build thousends of kilometers of highway and high speed rail lines, somethimes cutting straight through densely populated area without any protest by residents. Hmh. Makes you think, doesnt it?

[jiade]

In Germany, the maglev should be 300 metres away from residential area, because the radiation and noise.
But in Shanghai, the government deceide 22,5 metre !!! The new maglev projet will traversing the city, the residents demonstrate on street to protest the maglev projet from 4 days, but already 3 in the prison and one badly-wounded !
Of course, forbid the news in China...

[shanghaiMaglev]

it's a fact everybody knows.

i'm a resident near the revised plan of meglev from pudong to hongqiao. and i definitely argue against this plan.

and after calling to domestic newspapers and some departments of goverment, there are no any positive infomation.

the enviroment report said 22.5m is safety distance to ingore any uncertain effects from noise and radiation. there are no any supporting documents as evidences. it looks like a joke for me, but i don't know how the joke impact me life.

it's a professional board on maglev. i hope i can get help from here.

[PiT]

[shanghaiMaglev]

we said it's out for a walk.

[PiT]

Debate over Shanghai maglev route rolls onward

[jok]

there's a graph showing the amount of ELF / EMF radiation surronding maglev lines:

[techniker]

This is absolutely right. There is absolutely no danger coming from the magnetic field of Transrapid. In twenty meters distance you even can´t measure it!

From the perspective of magnetic fields, living even ten meters next to the train was no problem.

The only reason why we in germany are trying to not build Transrapid next to houses is noise.
In the City of Munich many houses will be located less than 100 meters next to the train. In the tunneled sections houses will be 10to40 meters above the train.

In Germany nobody is talking about magnetic fields because everybody knows that they are lying far below the earths magnetic field and are absolutely safe even if you sleep under the track. Every conventional high voltage rail line produces higher magnetic fields and in Germany hundrets of thousands of people live 10m to 50m next to such rail tracks. In difference to Transrapid, those conventional tracks are radiating 24 hours a day while TR is only radiating in the very moment the train is passing.

You in China should fight for noise protection and forget the magnetic field, honestly!

You are welcome to come here more often and talk to us.

[jok]

[BP]

I am a resident who will have a maglev line not far away from his home in the near future, too.

Not in Shanghai, but in Munich.

As it is the same type of maglev (Transrapid System) I dealt a lot with the question, how much it will affect my live and hope that I can answer some of your concerns.

As jok already said, "radiation" is no problem at all.

When it comes to noise, the situation is quite different:
In munich, the Transrapid Maglev is limited to 49 db(A) average noise in residential areas. That means, that the peak noise will be around 55-60 db(A) when it drives between 150-200 kmh. Maybe 65 db(A) at 200-230 kmh. That will be the maximum speed that the maglev will drive at the now planned extension in Shanghai.
Thats quieter than a Truck at 80 kmh and by far quieter than conventional steel-wheeled trains like metro trains or even CRH trains.

Nevertheless, its alsways good to ask for sound protection walls, if you have the chance to. Here in Munich, they will install some alongside the track, where necessary.

[jok]

USA Government Documents about maglev 'radiation' (E-Magnetic fields)

[PiT]

Chinese Citizens Rise Up in Protest Against Placement of Maglev Train

Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2008 9:54 PM
By Randall S. Newton

[shanghaiMaglev]

I heard there are 2 maglev line designed in Germany, but one of them was rejected by citizen. why?

why we do anti-maglev project in shanghai now?

1. Environmental Impact Statement shown to people is 7 pages, the statement can not persuade me;
2. The notice of maglev bluepriint was posted on Dec 29, 2007 and no local medias reported it officialy by chinese till Jan 4, 2008;
3. Till now, the local media do no voice on the project, especially it's forbiden to report our voice;
4. The periode of the notice is from Dec 29, 2007 to Jan 18, 2008, including new year holiday. After that, the plan will be deliveried to Beijing for final process.
5. No commercial assessment. I heard it's $ 6.9M budget per km for 31.8km maglev line. www.dw-world.de
How do you feel?[/b]

[shanghaiMaglev]

The following figures are copied from government website. http://www.shghj.gov.cn/News_Show.aspx?id=9725


The above figure shows the riverway will be moved 8-10m.


The above figure shows the distance between maglev line to railway


The above figure shows the maglev along the river and semi-burying way near residential area. According the figure, the distance from riverbank to building is around 46m, but I know the space of some apartments is around 40m. Also, the structure of bridges over the river did not be considered. So, it will be closer from apartments to maglev line just like the following figure shown.



[/quote]

[JonB]

[shanghaiMaglev]

[Tony]

Thanks for your replies, techniker and jok.

I am a resident who will live a 200m distance from the maglev in the Pudong to Hongqiao line in Shanghai. I have three quick questions for your guys:

i. You said that the magnetic field will not affect the residents absolutely. However, some top scientists or professionals in the transportation area in China strongly doubt that the affect of the magnetic field. So my question is: In German, do you have a definite well-recognized conclusion regarding the magnetic field impact issue both in the research and practical areas? Or there is till some professions to argue agianst it?

ii. Is the Maglev's magnetic field somehow like the magnetic field of high-power television signal Tower or moblie signal tower? I heard some rumor that people live near such Towers suffer a lot of disease, such as hair-loss or even cancer. The government says that the magnetic field of Maglev is lower than the earth magnetic field, but some one argues that there are totally different two types of magnetic fields and the frequently-changed magnetic field injected by Maglev will be harm to hurman's heath.

iii. The planned Shanghai Maglev will be semi-buried near the river when it passes near my house. Given the assumption that the magnetic field will be no problem, does the semi-buried method will significantly reduce the noise therefrom? Currently the planned speed the Maglev goes throught the urban area is 200km/h, will that be no much noise incurred?

I have just moved into my house and married with my beatiful wife last month. I do want to live in my new house and do not want the Maglev to hurt me and my wife. Kindly give your professional advices on the questions. I need the real answers, rather than to hear the endless quarrel here in our websites in China. Thanks again for anybody who reads my length typyings. Thanks a lot!

[Don]

[Flo77]

In your position, I would just go to the Shanghai maglev demonstration line, and go to a location trackside, that is about as far away from the track as your house.
And I would do that at a point of the track, where the train drives not faster than 200 kmh.

Then you will find out by yourself, how loud the train is at 200 kmh in a distance of 200 m in reality.


I marked such a location on this google earth map.

But take care, that you dont go to a location, where the train will go 300 or more





but remember: If the train will be underground near your house or maybe even just semi-underground like shown in the diagrams, you wont hear anything at all from its noise..

[lblow]

The responses from Don and Flo77, amplifying what techniker and jok had provided earlier, represent a comprehensive reply to the issues of magnetic fields and noise to be expected from the Transrapid maglev system in Shanghai (or anywhere).

I'd just like to add a personal perspective on the issues.

In the late 1980s, the State of Florida was considering a Transrapid demonstration line in the Orlando area. As part of the federal oversight, a team of public and private experts was assembled to investigate all safety-related aspects of the system. They travelled to Germany several times, visiting the Emsland test facility and the suppliers' offices of Siemens and ThyssenKrupp, and also performed the first series of field tests on the TR07 vehicle/system. At that time the findings were that Transrapid had very positive environmental characteristics, especially compared to high-speed rail systems being touted at the same time for the USA.

In the same time period, from 1988 to 1991, I was in the private sector and met with the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) people routinely. They told me about the tests and privately marvelled at the Transrapid as a ground transportation system. I remember talking with some of the FRA people and the private experts who conducted the field tests for noise, vibration and electromagnetic field effects, and hearing them say that the combination of technical factors made Transrapid a very attractive system for the USA.

Ten years later, in the summer of 2001, I was Transrapid-USA's senior engineer, and because of the ongoing Maglev Deployment Program, the decision was made to re-do the environmental tests for the TR08 vehicle/system, just as they had been done for the TR07. Many of the same private-sector experts who performed the 1991 tests were contacted and the principal investigators agreed to perform the noise, vibration and electromagnetic field effects field testing again, in most cases using the same types of measurement equipment.

The tests were undertaken over a two-week period in August, 2001, at the Emsland test facility. I was fortunate to be able to spend a week there, overseeing the tests and interacting with the experts again, face to face, as they updated their earlier test sequences and, eventually, came away with much the same results. More importantly, I was able to hear from them, the experts, as they talked informally about Transrapid and how it stacked up against competing rail systems around the world. I came away more impressed than ever that Transrapid was the best technology choice for high-speed ground transportation in the USA.

Thus, my message is that the test results called out in the messages we've been posting were done by people recognized as experts in their respective areas. The data contained in the documents is the most accurate and comprehensive available. There is nothing to fear from the construction of a Transrapid line in your neighborhoods.

[techniker]

Hello Tony,

[Don]

One small thing tho: we in this forum are (mostly) Transrapid praisers.
If you in Shanghai wonder why we have so positive approach, that's why. Some people here like Larry Blow, John Harding or techniker speak mostly from experience; I make up for my disadvantage in experience with bias. :) However, I think that our supportive attitude is based on facts whereas naysayers' attitude is based on misbeliefs and/or hostility.

[beck]

Hi, Flo77, Thank you for your information.

Every day I passed the location you marked on the google earth map twice, sometimes I stopped for red light under the Transrapid track. In fact I found that the noise is too loud for me even I close all the car window. Maybe I should get the exactly DB in the next time.

And My home is only 30 meters away to the DianPu River, Please refer to the following Pic:

So the space between my home and Transrapid track is <10 meters, I dont know wether the noise and magnetic will influence our families or not.

[Flo77]

well, as it will be in a tunnel, it wont have any effect to your home at all.

The noise itself wont be able to leave the tunnel, and as a maglev produces hardly and vibrations, especially at speeds below 250 kmh, I guess you wont notice much from the train.

The only problem will be the noise during construction. But as the whole city of Shanghai is one huge construction site, the maglev construction dirt and noise will be a minor issue.

Btw : How do Shanghai residents deal with noise from other infrastructures, like motorways and overground metro lines?

[beck]

Thanks for answer

the noise is a problem for some place near main road in our city, but along the DianPu River , the environment is very beautiful and scilently now. I think the google earth map need to be updated because I found that it is the scene 3 years ago when I found the map where my home located. :)



maybe we can not walk along the river in our garden in the next years, and the 1st floor will lose sunsight because the tunnel is 3.82 meters high beyond ground as the the previous pic shown. :(

[jiade]

The average income is 130 euros per month! China need more moneys for etucations, medicares ... not for such "image project" !

[jiade]

12 Jan, Saturday afternoon 14h, meet at People Square ! Welcome !

[floh]

[PiT]

Train dispute tests activism in China

By Geoff Dyer in Shanghai

Published: January 11 2008 16:14

[Tony]

Guys, thanks for your kind reply and advice.
We will wait and see how the things going on!

[beck]

Hi ,Floh

Thanks for your suggestions, I think it is very helpful for the citizens, also for the government. The official report do not shown how the holes located and don't reply our email about this question. So I don't know how the noise impacts will influence my home.

We need to give our advice to the government for such an important project. I think the key point is that our goventment must keep their pace with the high tech , learn to communicate with the citizens in a normal way. Last night the police come to a citizens home and arrested a women, what a stupid way! over ten thousands citizens will come to people's square now.

As following pic shown, if we just talk about the maglev line , no matter with the other points, I think the new changed line is not the best choice. Maybe it will be better to go along with the Highway or the railway (the original line). How do you think about it?


beautiful Dianpu River Jan.2008

[Flo77]

When I read the news abou the realignment, my first thought was that they would cut the corner just like you showed in your drawing and build the maglev line along the highway.
When the drawing was made public that it will be built along the river, I was surprised in the first moment, but as it will be in a tunnel, I think its more or less ok.

Nevertheless, it would be much better, if the tunnel would be 100% underground, and would not stand 3-4 m out of the ground, blocking sunlight and the view to the river.

We had that discussion at another thread in the forum in the past concerning maglev tunnels in munich.

I dont know how much more expansive construction would be, if they would build the tunnel 4 meters deeper, so that you wont see anything from it. As far as I can see, it will be built in cut-and-fill method, so it souldnt be more expansive at all, to make it 4 meters deeper.


Nevertheless, I post you a section of the planned munich maglev line, where you can see the elevated line, together with sound protection walls left and right. Maybe that would help.

[PiT]

[PiT]

Maglev protests rock Shanghai

Monday, January 14, 2008

[PiT]

Shanghai government seeks public opinion on plans to extend maglev train following protest